Friday, August 10, 2012

Jedi vs. Sith Commentary

For this weeks Commentary Friday post, I asked my Followers to give their opinions on the Jedi and the Sith. I was very pleased with the turnout for this, and I would love to do something like this again!

So, without further ado, let the the Jedi vs. Sith Commentary begin!




1. Jedi philosophy is one of peace. Sith philosophy is one of power. Which side has the better philosophy and why?

Captain Crispus: The Jedi have a better philosophy.  When there is peace, fighting is mostly eradicated.  However, when there is fighting for power, it just ends up that other people want more power, so they will kill the person with more power to get their power (if you get what I am saying).

Darth Talon: you shouldn't rely solely on power. it won't really get you anywhere. i think that the Jedi might have the better philosophy on that one.

Helen: The Jedi philosophy is definitely the morally right one, so I would say that the Jedi philosophy is the right one.  The Sith philosophy, however, is very thrilling and dark, and I think that even though it really doesn’t make any sense, it is the most exciting one.

Jacob: The Jedi have the better philosophy, because the galaxy operates better when at peace than when everyone is struggling for power.

Buruk: The Jedi have the better philosophy, but I think they could do with a dash of “peace through superior firepower” in their code.

Solace Utara: Jedi, of course. The Sith philosophy is about gaining power and excercising control over a yourself, then a group of beings, then a planet, then eventually the whole galaxy. But this comes at a terrible cost. As Obi-Wan says, you cease to be oneself and you become a unspeakably evil monster. It is not worth it to embrace the Sith philosophy. The Jedi philosophy, meanwhile, leads you to become a better person and help everyone's lives. The Galaxy becomes a better place if the Sith are just wiped out and the Jedi continue to be guardians.

Aayla Rain: Jedi because is the better one for many reasons. Like in the books The Jedi Path it teaches the concepts of the light side of the force to the new beginning Jedi. Peace is better than the greed of power. Power only gets so far and then begins to create a never ending war. With peace we are able to live amongst one another without the worry of a war tearing our families apart. Therefore, the Jedi philosophy is the better one.

Arda: I would say Jedi philosophy. With peace, one can find contentment, but if someone wants power, they likely won't be satisfied and just want more and more power.

Arya: The Jedi philosophy is better because The Jedi care about other beings besides just themselves. They are open to others and respect them, while the Sith destroy anything they don't like.

helpusobi1: The Sith harness power. The Sith always have a raging war inside of them, and they fuel that. The Jedi also have such a war raging inside of them, though they try to suppress it. This only leads to unstable Jedi.

Stilwater/Cad Bane: Power is the better philosophy by far.  Peace is never a permanent state; even if there is no wars or battles, external or internal conflict still remains.  It is impossible to ever find true peace.  Power, however, can be achieved.  Power is limitless but attainable.  Thus, it's better to have a philosophy around a goal you can actually grab rather than one that will never truly be.

Darth Nil: jedi. 'cause, if there wasn't a war, some of the jedi wouldn't have died.


2. The Jedi Code suppresses emotion and encourages peace. The Sith Code elevates anger and hate and encourages a consistent hunger for power. Which side has the better Code and why?

Captain Crispus: The Jedi have a better Code.  The peace/power dispute gets the same answer as above.  As for the emotions part, having anger and hate means people will not like you as much, because you always seem dissatisfied.

Darth Talon: between the two options i would be inclined to say that peace is the way to go. you shouldn't be promoting anger and hatred .however you should still make use of your emotions.

Helen: The Jedi win again! It really isn’t that bright to let yourself be guided by your emotions. Think of how many wars, murders, and such would have never have existed if people hadn’t let themselves be guided by their emotions!

Jacob: In general, I would say the Jedi has the better code because, as I said above, the galaxy operates better when it is at peace.  Though I do disagree with the idea of suppressing all emotion.  But overall, the Jedi code is much better than the Sith code.

Buruk: Well, it’s complicated.  The original Jedi Code says: "Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet the Force." This means that Jedi can have emotions yet still have peace.  Unfortunately, then there came the sith spawn of a Jedi Odan Urr.  He mauled the Jedi Code into its well known version: "There is no emotion, there is peace. There is no ignorance, there is knowledge. There is no passion, there is serenity. There is no chaos, there is harmony. There is no death, there is the Force." Most Jedi think that you must suppress emotion to encourage peace.  But actually, the original code allows emotion and claims that you can still have peace with emotion.  Thus, the original Jedi Code is far better than the Sith’s code.  I highly dislike Odan Urr’s version of the code, but that too, is better than the Sith’s code.  The Sith order is a self-destructive order, based on betrayal and chaos.  In the end, it will be the Jedi that survive because they are on the side of peace and mutual cooperation.  Nobody likes the sith, not even other sith.  Thus, they will eventually die.

Solace Utara: The Jedi Code. I would like to point out that "Suppresses" is a Sith view. The Jedi, in fact, do not suppress their emotions. They feel it, then they let it go without using it. It is important to be honest with your feelings, as Master Bondara stated in Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter. A peaceful mind, guided by the Force, and without any conscious thought, wins most of the times. Some people misinterpret or don't understand it completely this, like Anakin Skywalker, for example. Anger and hate can make you powerful, but it eventually leads to destruction. Only fools take the easy path. As I said, it is not worth it. The Sith Code leads people to be ensnared by the trap of the dark side. It may seem like freedom, but it is only an illusion. The Jedi may live a life with the sacrifice of personal freedom, but they are not blinded and can choose to leave. The Sith  hardly have any thought of that since their minds are pretty much bounded to serve the dark side.

Aayla Rain: The Jedi Code symbolizes the ideas that war is not the option for the greater good of the people who live within our world. Kind of like I said before hunger for power always leads to hurting of many by a war that constantly goes on for years. I do think that the Jedi Code needs to be fine-tuned in some places when it comes to love and emotion.

Arda: Leaning Jedi here - anger and hate can be destructive so I am definitely against that, but suppressing emotion isn't the greatest. Putting it aside to make rational decisions is good, just as long as it doesn't build up inside.

Arya: Peace is the better way. Peace creates good relationships with other beings in the galaxy.

helpusobi1: The Jedi code denies passion, ignorance, emotion, death, and chaos. The Sith code embraces these things. The Force serves to free the Sith, to “break the chains.” By manipulating the Force, Sith can thereby empower themselves way beyond the limits of the Jedi.

Stilwater/Cad Bane: Again, power is attainable, so it's a good thing that the Sith Code encourages the hunger for it.  The human nature is very emotional and wants to run on emotion.  Resisting those emotions and drives numbs down one's full potential.  The Jedi Code is about control and the Sith Code about unleashing one's self.  So, to answer the question, I'd say their codes are equal because both of them compliment their own philosophies the best.

Darth Nil: jedi, again. They are the good guys ya know.


3. The Jedi work through peaceful negotiation. The Sith work through ware. Which side is more effective (generally speaking, no specific situation in mind) and why?

Captain Crispus: Peaceful negotiation is better.  If the negotiations don’t work, then no one died in the process.  However, when using war, many innocent people die and both side suffers loss.

Darth Talon: negotiation should be your first attempt. all out war should be avoided but there comes a time when you should stand up for what you believe in and fight back. don't just sit there while the evil forces of this galaxy take over.

Helen: Hmmm…that’s a hard question. I think it really matters on the situation and who you are dealing with. In some situations, war is definitely more effective, but in others, peaceful negotiations would be much wiser and safer.

Jacob: Generally, the Jedi method is more effective because it generally produces trust and friendship, instead of hate and fear.
Buruk: In general, peaceful negotiation is better.  War is a gambit based on whether or not you can win.  Usually, since the Sith are so anti-social, they have the most enemies.  Since the Jedi help a lot of people, they usually have a lot of allies.  I would say peaceful negotiation is more effective, and when negotiation fails, they can easily turn to…aggressive negotiation, with the added benefit of having lots of friends.

Solace Utara: Both are effective, and mostly the situation determines the answer, so I can't answer this question really well. As much as I hate to say it, I think action speaks louder than words most of the cases in Star Wars history. I know a couple of Jedi in the council agrees with me, and Even Obi-Wan "The Negotiator" feels that way...

Aayla Rain: Honestly, sometimes neither of them are effective but for this questions purpose I would the Jedi way is better. If we sit down together and discuss the issues at hand we might be able to stop suffering and war in this world. The Sith way of thinking is through war which just creates more and problems from there. People suffer in order to protect their families because peacekeepers did not get there in time. Thus the Sith have a plentiful playground. With peaceful negotiations in this world we would just have one war after another.

Arda: If you win someone's mind through, they will stay with you longer than if you win them by force, so I'm with negotiation.

Arya: Peace is always better than war. War creates enemies, peaceful negotiations gain allies.

helpusobi1: Peaceful negotiation rarely works. We see time and time again how often the Jedi resort to war and give into their anger. Only then do they get things done.

Stilwater/Cad Bane: I'd actually have to side with the Jedi on this one because war is all about conflict and violence, which is not the right state to find the most cooperation and progress.  But if a Sith strives to create destruction and chaos, by all means, war is the perfect solution.  I would say both are effective, but the Jedi form in a way that is more positive and beneficial.


Darth Nil: jedi. less bloodshed.



4. Could a Jedi and a Sith ever work productively together, and why or why not?

Captain Crispus: I think the Jedi and Sith would probably end up killing each other.  Their idea of the world and entire mindset are complete opposites, and it wouldn’t work out very well.

Darth Talon: it is possible that when times are desperate, two vastly different groups can join together for a short time to destroy a common enemy. like in sean william's book fatal alliance. of course i think that that only really works in a galaxy far far away. good can't stand evil. evil can't stand good.

Helen: Yes, I think they would if there was a danger far greater than they could withstand alone. Kind of like the Avengers in a way…these people probably never would have joined together if there hadn’t been a threat so great that it was almost critical for them to team together.

Jacob: No, they could not, because they have such extremely different ideals.

Buruk: Yes.  I could easily see Jedi and Sith working together.  Why?  Because the Sith are motivated for selfish reasons.  I just have to imagine a situation where what the Jedi wants (the general good of the galaxy) is vital to the Sith’s self interest.  Such an instance might occur in a situation where both the Jedi and Sith were in danger from some other threat.  Maybe an alien invasion?  I haven’t read anything about the Yuzuahn Vong, but something like that might trigger Jedi and Sith working together. 

Solace Utara: If they have the same goal and put aside their differences, then I guess so. They both have the same BASIC understanding of the Force. Like Obi-Wan and Anakin with Dooku. They almost escaped then. But I think they would end up fighting each other in the end anyway.

Aayla Rain: I believe that in the old texts the Jedi and the Sith did work together at some point in time. But, unfortunately they always turn on each other. One not trusting the other so they’re better off apart. So no I don’t think they could work well together at all.

Arda: Possibly, in a rare situation if they realize they can't solve a mutual problem by themselves. But it would take a lot of humility, wisdom, and control so they don't kill each other right off the bat.

Arya: A true Sith would never be able to work with a true Jedi. The Sith would only be increasing his/her power, and the Jedi would never knowingly assist them. If the Sith were to hide their true intentions from the Jedi, they might be able to work together for what seems to the Jedi to be "good", but in the end, it would not be produtive for the Jedi. If the Sith was not a "true Sith" (not completely following the Sith code, just a "Dark Jedi" or a "fallen Jedi", then they may be able to work together for a good cause. Like wise, if the Jedi was not truly following the Jedi code, they might work together with a Sith. (Take Anakin Skywalker in ROTS for example)

helpusobi1: Only until the Jedi is no longer useful.

Stilwater/Cad Bane: I think it definitely could happen if they were each willing to understand and cooperate with the other.  Why not combine the strives for power and peace?  I doubt such a partnership would be permanent at all.  But hey, anything can happen.


Darth Nil: yes. because once obiwan was helping assaj ventress when darth maul and his brother were attacking them in the Clone Wars.



5. Do you prefer Dark Side Cookies or Light Side Brownies?

Captain Crispus: Light Side brownies, because butterscotch brownies are the best brownies.  Ever.  Period.  Exclamation point.

Darth Talon: I  <3 COOKIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! snickerdoodles, peanut butter, and the lemon ones with icing are probably some of the best.

Helen: Dark Side cookies!!

Jacob: Most positively Light Side brownies.

Buruk: Dark Side cookies.  They taste better.  Nuff said.

Solace Utara: Seriously? This made me smile. Thanks! Cookies are awesome! Oh, and yes, the Dark Side lies about this cookies... There are no cookies in the Dark Side...

Aayla Rain: I love them both! =D

Arda: I'm a Jedi through and through, but I must say I prefer cookies!

Arya: Not sure what you're trying to ask. If you mean for dessert, I like cookies better than brownies, but if you're wondering which side of the force is better, than it's the Light Side.

helpusobi1: Cookies. Totally.

Stilwater/Cad Bane: Hmm...brownies have a lot more chocolate in them.  But I adore raw cookie dough...O.o Probably cookies.


Darth Nil: COOKIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

THE JEDI:


What is wrong with the Sith? What gives a Jedi an advantage and a Sith a disadvantage?

Captain Crispus: The Sith are power-hungry and malicious.  They don’t care how their actions will affect other people or even entire civilizations and planets.  They only want their way and will stop at nothing to get it. The Jedi have an advantage because their side has many more people.  Plus, the Jedi can use mind tricks, while the Sith can’t.  The Sith have a disadvantage because their hate and anger sometimes blinds them to the truth.

Helen: Even though I love the Sith, they are the bad guys, and they are confused, twisted, and powerful people who accomplish their goals through lies, threats, and murder. Even though this can look really epic with people like Darth Vader and Palpatine, it is really ugly when you take away the cool mask and evil cackle. The Jedi don’t use the Force to get what they want like the Sith, instead they let themselves be led by the Force. I think this gives the Sith a disadvantage.  The Jedi help others, and this makes the universe look at them as people to be relied on…which is exactly what they are! :D

Jacob: They are power-hungry, treacherous, and use hate and fear to accomplish their goals. When they fight, Jedi are usually a lot more clear-headed than Sith, because they aren't (or aren't supposed to be at least) clouding their judgment with their hatred for their enemy.  On the flip side, a Sith's judgment is clouded when they fight because the are filling themselves with anger and hatred for their enemy.

Buruk: Do you want the synopsis or the list?  =P hahaha


1.      They’re evil
2.      They’re self-destructive
3.      They’re selfish
4.      Face tattoos hurt.
5.      They take everything about peace and turn it into hatred.  I believe in emotion and maybe some forms of attachment, but the Sith take it to the overkill level.  This makes all the Jedi paranoid and preventing all emotion and attachment, making it less fun to be a Jedi.
6.      By succumbing to hatred and other emotions, they forfeit the ability to think logically.  Often, they kill people who might be an asset to them in the future just because they’re angry.
7.      They cheat at Sabaac.  This, above all else, ticks me off.  If you have to cheat to win at Sabaac, why do you play at all?  =P
(Jedi advantages)
1.      Jedi have friends.  A lot of them.
2.      Jedi have resources and access to more stuff than the Sith.  You can build more lightsabers by being friendly than you can by sitting off alone in a dark corner of the galaxy.
3.      In general, there are more Jedi than Sith.  More on this in a moment.
4.      Jedi don’t get distracted by the pain from Sith face tattoos.  Which hurt.
5.      Sith were unfortunate enough to get Darth Bane, aka “The Stupidest Sith Ever.”  He effectively crippled the order and limited their numbers.  This makes them always outnumbered.
6.      The Sith get battle droids.  Jedi get clones.  Nuff said.  And not a WORD about how the clones betrayed the Jedi and how the droids would never betray the sith.  NOT.  A.  WORD.  =P
Solace Utara: Many endless things. Put simply, they care only for themselves and they're willing to destroy the galaxy to do what they want. They are cruel, cold, merciless, and and evil monster. They think the galaxy is there only to be used. That's just... wrong. Not really anything, but they have an unshakable faith in the light, loyalty to the Order, belief that they will prevail. They don't waste time fighting each other like the Sith do- and that's why they were pretty much destroyed.
Aayla Rain: All the Sith do is create havoc wherever they go. Twisting truths into lies in order to gain access to the things they need. Many people suffer because of their fearful ways of treating the people around them. Having others fear them in order to reign supreme over them. Whenever they want control over a planet they either start a war or block the trade routes until the people give in to their demands. The Jedi have the skill many of the Sith don’t have when it comes to hand to hand combat. The Jedi can sense their opponents presence a lot clearer than a Sith could. The Sith have a disadvantage as they are careless when they fight. It’s very sloppy I think anyway. They tend to fight in anger without a clear head on their shoulders.  When they fight their judgment is clouded thus giving the Jedi an advantage in combat.
Arda: Because Jedi are others-centered, they are more likely to have people on their side than the self-centered Sith. Also, since Jedi do not use passion, they can see things clearly and rationally, while a Sith could be distracted and blinded.
Arya: The Sith only care about themselves. They view the galaxy as something they have the right to control if they can achieve their goals. They ruthlessly  use any means possible to accoplish their goals and don't care about the other beings in the galaxy. Not only is this wrong, but it's illogical. Think about it; of you destroy everyone in the galaxy just because they oppose ytou or you don't like them, once you have finally conquered, you'll heve nothing to rule! What's the point? Peace and harmony is the better solution. As Jedi, we want to protect the helpless and less fortunate, not destroy them because they don't like our ideas. The Jedi have calm, in the worst situations. We also have the support of many. THe Sith make enemies everywhere they go, and even in places they don't. Most of their supporters are with them because of fear, not true loyalty.

Darth Nil: sith are crazy. let's just leave it at that. the jedi are doing the right thing by defending people who are weaker than themselves. but a sith's judgements can sometimes be clouded because of their anger, hatred, and need for revenge.




THE SITH:



What is wrong with the Jedi? What gives a Sith an advantage and the Jedi a disadvantage?
helpusobi1: The Jedi view things as indispensible. That is where they are wrong. If something gets in their way, they go around it. This only slows them down. Both the Jedi and the Sith have unlimited power at their fingertips. The Sith harness that power, and the Jedi reject it. And why, with so many Jedi, is there always some sort of Sith threat?
Stilwater/Cad Bane: The Jedi appear to either dodge or neglect the fact that the inner spirit is driven by emotion, and resisting that is a resistance on your inner potential. The Sith have the advantage that they are allowed to explore their own emotions, drives, and desires.  In that way they know themselves better than the Jedi; they can identify what they feel and how they feel.  Because of that they have a strong advantage against the Jedi by more easily coming to terms with themselves and their own potential.  The Jedi have the disadvantage because they represent the whole Order, not themselves, so when all they have left to defend is themselves they basically have nothing to fight for.


I hope you guys enjoyed this! I know I did! And thank you so much to all of those who were involved in this! I loved all of your answers, and I hope we can do this again soon! =D

And a special thanks to my sister, Ahsoka Tano, for drawing that awesome picture for this post! I love it! =D


 - Edessa, signing off














37 comments:

  1. I really enjoyed reading it all! Thanks! I loved it! I'd like to be a Jedi with all my heart and never a Sith, so thank goodness I was able to counter every argument about the Sith in my mind :D

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  2. This was really fun to do, and it was great to read everyone's answers! You all had some really good points! It was interesting to read opinions favoring the Sith - I don't see that too often.

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  3. That was very cool. I'm not sure which side I would choose. When I play KOTOR for the first time I always go Light Side but it is so much fun replaying it as The Dark Side and many of my favorite characters are Sith. I just can't decide.

    -James

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    1. I play KotOR twice a year, and KotOR II twice a year. Once as the canon good guy (male for Revan, female for the exile), and then once as a Sith of the opposite sex. So fun.

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  4. I decided to favor the Sith because I figured more people would lean towards the Jedi.
    I would much rather be a Jedi, though. :P

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  5. You forgot to put my full name!!
    This was such a cool idea. I hope you do more like this in the future.

    (It's "need2read", in case anyone is wondering...)

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    1. Whoops! I'm so sorry! I guess I got so busy trying to compile everyone's answers that I forgot! I'm very sorry about that! But I am glad that you liked the post. =)

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  6. it turned out better than i thought. i love it. :)

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  7. Well this was unexpected. I was thinking everyone would side with the Sith...because in SWTOR, there are a ton more dark side characters than light side.

    *hifives fellow jedi*

    And remember boys and girls, face tattoos hurt.

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    1. 'k. so face tattoos hurt. the sith are still infinitely superior to the jedi. so, my fellow sith, would you like to help me with some jedi conversion? :)

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    2. I'm welcome for you to try to convert me. But I'm already not a very orthodox Jedi, so I don't feel the same restrictions that cause most Jedi to convert. *loves a challenge*

      So. Why are the Sith infinitely superior to the Jedi? Are you speaking from a purely force-power based standpoint, or in philosophy?

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  8. oh and i just love your argument helpusobi1!

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  9. my arguments are mostly ability oriented. here's the thing, if you had the chance to read my answers to the sith only q's (which you didn't because Edessa had a few problems getting it up there so it isn't there:)then you would see that i believe that the sith have the advantage cause they can do whatever a jedi can plus some. i mean, if you watch the movies you'll notice that if say Yoda does something with the force, somewhere in star wars a sith does the same move. sith can also do things like force lightning and a force choke that jedi can't.(ok so they can do it but they don't) so basically, if you were making an army comprised of clones of force users, jedi or sith, which one would you choose if you wanted to win a war? if both were completely and totally loyal to you, i mean. sith is the obvious answer. oh and sith are loyal to their order. unlike jedi. come on, can you name off a sith or two that turned to the light side (if they were never a jedi. so if your gonna say vader, think of another. he was originally a jedi. that's what he grew up with.) i can't think of any. and how many jedi turned to the dark side? over twenty at least. people like count dooku left the jedi in favor of the sith. not as loyal as ya thought huh?

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  10. oh and fyi: jedi cheat at sabacc too. the following quotes are taken from karen traviss' series republic commando. they may not be exact(i don't have the book with me) but here's the gist:
    "it's so nice that we can sit around a table and cheat at cards."
    "i'm not cheating!"
    "no, but i am."
    that is a jedi admitting to cheating right there. i am finding more and more reasons to dislike jedi every day, how bout you?

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  11. 1. There are Jedi known to use Dark Side powers. Namely, Galen Marek.
    2. Jedi can counter Sith powers easily, like Yoda did with force lightning.
    3. It's not fair to restrict the whole Sith conversion thing to people who have never been a Jedi. Why? Because pretty much every force user turns to the Jedi order to learn to use the force. Children are given to the Jedi Order at a young age. The majority of force users were at one time Jedi
    4. About the whole force army point:

    I would totally pick the Jedi. Even if the Sith clones are completely loyal to you, they still don't play nice with others. Let's face it, you can't win a war with just Jedi. Thats why the Jedi were wiped out in the purge, even though they were more powerful. That's why Jedi don't rule the galaxy. And that's also why the Sith have an alliance with the Mandalorians. To win a war, you need people like Han Solo, Wedge Antilles, Captain Rex, and the others. You need normal people with more guts than medichlorians, and a trusty blaster at their side.

    If you had an army of Sith, no one would join you. You would be a ruthless force that everyone hated and no one would want to join. You wouldn't get credits from senators like Mon Mothma, you wouldn't get the Corellians to build you starships. On the other hand, if you had a Jedi army, people would want to help. Just because you trust your Sith army doesn't mean that the galaxy trusts your Sith army. People are too smart to trust the dark side.

    For the record, Jedi have awesome abilities too. Like Force Sever. If you can find me a Sith who did that, I'll be surprised. The Jedi have powers that can rock the world, but they choose not to use them. If it were necessary however, I believe that the Jedi could unveal some pretty awesome powers. Think about it. The Sith sit off in their corner of the universe doing who knows what. The Jedi have a temple in the center of the galaxy with all the resources they could imagine. Who's going to do more research? Answer? THE JEDI. In the millions of years of being the dominant force side, they've uncovered more than the Sith do sulking in the dark.

    ...if you could look up that quote and tell me what Jedi claimed to be cheating, I might concede to that point. But I'll bet he's a dark/grey jedi...

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  12. 1. no idea who that is, but i'll give you that one. however those powers are pretty much limited to the sith. 2. you forgot one little thing: it works both ways. a sith can block a jedi's attacks and vice versa. 3. so? there are sith who have always been sith who have turned to the jedi. k here's the thing: after i posted that comment, i asked my older sister, Edessa, if she could think of one. she could. Starkiller. tho he was never made an "official" jedi, he still quit the sith order and began studying under a jedi master. read about it in the book The Force Unleashed. 4. not true. jedi are generally more easy to get along with, but i could rattle off quite a few people other than sith who hate jedi. i will save you the time by not doing that. plus, there are more than a few people in the galaxy who regard the jedi as baby snatchers. that one point though, about more guts and less midichlorians, not sure that that can be argued with. and for the record, that was just a random example i came up with off of the top of my head :) bout that force sever thing... care to explain? as in who does it when have they done it and so on. the sith may not have some huge temple but they do more than just sit around all day and occasionally scaring someone silly. they have temples and the like too. and research can't do everything. you have to act on what you have discovered too. a point that seems lost on the jedi. fyi. i made a small mistake. the game wasn't sabaac, it was pazaak. but it's still cheating. i don't own the book, i'm not sure if the library has it. and i don't even remember if it was in Order 66 or 501st Legion. but the jedi i referred to is a Kaminoan jedi named Kina Ha. She escaped order 66 and was on the run,temporarily staying at Kal Skirata's home Kyrimorut. she was playing with former jedi Bardan Jusik. but in case that cheating thing still won't convince you, here is an actual example of a jedi cheating in the movie the Phantom Menace. remember how Qui Gon Jinn and Watto were rolling that chance cube to decide if Jinn would get Anikin or Shmi if he won the podrace? Qui Gon Jinn used the force to move the cube the way he wanted it to turn out. now i will sit back, relax, and enjoy watching you trying to deny that irrefutable fact! :)

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  13. Buruk the Grey JediAugust 20, 2012 at 9:38 PM

    1. Galen Marek = Starkiller

    2. My point is that the Sith having a wider range of powers is nulled by the fact that they can be cancelled. Furthermore, a lot of their powers like the ones that mutate beasts and stuff take time and concentration, and you can't really use them in the middle of a battle.

    3. The original Sith Lords were exiled Jedi. Their roots are within the Jedi, so from a certain point of view (*loves Obi-Wan*), you cannot be a TRUE Sith without first having been a Jedi.

    4. I was speaking in general terms, not of the whole galxy..."Only a Sith deals in absolutes." *grins*

    5. Force Sever:

    Nomi Sunrider against Ulic Qel-Droma

    Darth Caedus against Ben Skywalker

    And many more practicioners, including Vodo-Siosk Baas, Kyle Katarn, Odan-Urr, Ooroo, Vergere, need I go on?

    6. Aha. Now we come to the difference between Jedi and Grey Jedi. I consider myself a Grey Jedi. In order that I don't have to explain our whole philosophy to you, I suggest you look up the wookieepedia article for Grey Jedi. Also, you might check out the Jensaari, who are pretty cool.

    7. About Sabaac. I believe my original statement was "If you have to cheat to win at Sabaac, why do you play at all?" This is under the impression that you're playing to have fun. Qui-Gon was dealing with the fate of the galaxy (who knows what would have happened if he had left Anakin on Tatooine?), so he was perfectly justified in cheating.

    *grins*

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  14. 1. oh. yeah. i knew that. *grins sheepishly*

    2. does it matter if all of it can be used in battle? it's just the fact that they can do it. that's why they're awesome. and sith can block jedi powers too, ya know. (why do i have to repeat myself?) the only reason the sith haven't completely destroyed the jedi order is because everyone watching the movies would want their money back. i mean, who likes Dr. Zhivago?

    3. keywords: from a certain point of view. *dislikes obi wan*

    4. yeah well, ya can't generalize everything. there is a quote from Kal Skirata (one of the mando rc trainers in case you didn't already know)where he reveals the fact that he would rather be with the imperials instead of the republic. he says that the only reason he is staying with the GAR is because of his adopted clone sons.

    5. before, you said that if i found a sith who force severed something that you would be surprised. yet in this comment you say that Darth Caedus used it against Ben Skywalker. seems kinda contradictory to me.

    6. i have read about Kina Ha and so far have found no evidence suggesting that she is a grey jedi. have you?

    7. my point is that he still cheated. and maybe if he had left anakin on tatooine this whole problem with palpatine and all wouldn't have happened. like you said, who knows? don't get me wrong tho. i like anakin. i think that he is extremely epic :)

    8. btw thanks for humoring me on this whole thing! i love a good debate and it's really hard to find someone who's good at it to debate with around here!

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  15. 2. From a certain point of view, the Jedi are awesome because they choose not to use those powers. However, I concede that most Sith have access to more powers than Jedi. *cough* Dr. who? =P Arguing from a real-life standpoint, it's easy to see why the Sith haven't completely destroyed the Jedi order. But I was more or less debating from an in-universe standpoint.

    2.5. So from an in-universe standpoint, why haven't the Sith completely destroyed the Jedi order? They've almost done it once or twice, but never completely succeeded. This is a quote from Tionne Solusar (Jedi Archivist):

    "Although this historic record may lack objectivity, I do not intend to glorify the Jedi or vilify the Sith, but to present a cohesive account of our origins and encounters, and illustrate our similarities and differences. Our histories are not separate but dangerously entwined, like two branches on a tree that threaten to break each other in their respective attempts to embrace sunlight and shadow. Some have speculated whether the Jedi and Sith can even exist without the other, and most doubt that there will ever be a peaceful resolution to their eternal conflict."

    Perhaps neither can exist without the other?

    3. Everything is relative =P

    4. I'm not entirely sure how you're arguing. Your example proves that you can't take something out of context. I was saying that the Jedi (in general) are likeable. If you want me to supply numerous examples with context, I can. I wasn't taking just one example and generalizing it.

    5. I was surprised--I haven't finished the Legacy of the Force series, so I'm not entirely an expert on Darth Caedus.

    6. When the Empire struck, I believe that most Jedi adopted a grey persona. When desperate times call for desperate measures, I think that the Jedi who survived did so because they were lucky, or because they were willing to leave the rigid orthodox path of traditional Jedi. Kina Ha was by no means a "real" grey Jedi, but I think that the fall of the order corrupted her to an extent.

    7. ... I'm pretty sure that I acknowledged that he was cheating in my above point#7. I'm just saying that it was good that he cheated.

    8. No problem--I love a good debate too.

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  16. 1. Dr. Zhivago.it's some movie. i have never seen it but my mom has and she says that it's terrible. the movie ends with the main character walking off into the cold snowy night with his life completely destroyed. his enemies beat him. i'm still trying to figure out what would drive somebody to make that movie...

    2. depends on what you mean by and "in-universe standpoint". but just so you know, i never said that jedi are completely powerless or anything. i like quite a few jedi actually. for instance, there's Aayla Secura, Satele Shan, Ahsoka Tano, Anakin Skywalker, Etain Tur Mukan, Bardan Jusik, and several others. that said, i had a discussion with Edessa a few weeks ago concerning the possibility of the whole one can't exist w/o the other thing. we finally concluded that yes it is true. nonetheless, i still prefer sith powers and even some of their beliefs over that of the jedi.

    3. agreed.

    4. i know that most people like jedi more but there are some instances where they get just downright annoying! like obi wan. seriously! can't the guy stop talking for all of five seconds?! and yoda. the accent is creative, granted, but it sure gets on a girl's nerves after a while. part of what bugs me about the jedi is that they just sit around being peaceful. now, there isn't anything wrong with peace but there never will be peace while they don't do anything. they seem to twist peace to the point of believing that ignorance is bliss. and, while i prefer not to get into all of this, you force me to. clones. they accepted a slave army. an army without a choice. made to die in a war, fighting for the republic even if they don't agree with it. before i read republic commando by karen traviss, i never thought about the clones. i simply knew that they existed and didn't even bother to think about them. but when i did read it, i was surprised. like i said, i accepted their existence but did not think about what that existence was like. i recommend that you try reading the first book: hard contact. because your username is in mando'a i take it that you like mandolorians. if it will help persuade you, there are a lot of mandos in the series.

    5. just out of curiosity: is it a good series so far?

    6. i suppose. but following your logic, you would agree that yoda was a grey jedi? didn't seem so to me when luke meets him on dagobah.

    7. yeah. but it looks to me like in your original comment, that you don't believe that jedi cheat. jussayin...

    8. FYI ya know how i mentioned starkiller, but then didn't know who you meant when you said galen marek? well, i haven't exactly read the force unleashed. i read the comic book. and didn't really get it anyway. so that's just an explanation. in case you were wondering.

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  17. 1. Sounds like Frankenstein...

    2. by "in-universe" I mean, from the perspective of someone in the star wars universe. Instead of from the perspective of real life where we know that the good guys have to win.

    3. I highly dislike Orthodox Jedi for the same reasons you prefer the Sith. However, I dislike the Sith for the reasons I listed above. Thus, I've settled for a third option--grey jedi.

    4. Haha....I'm not big on Obi-Wan or Yoda either. About clones:

    4.5: Accepting the clone army was one of the best and worst things the Jedi order did. They did what was necessary to win the war, but those clones also became their downfall. If however, Sidious had been killed, then accepting the clone army would have been their greatest achievement in the clone wars. In war, you do what you need to to win. Including accepting a slave army. I totally realize and agree that the clones were in essence, slaves, and that's a bad thing. However, it was necessary to defeat the separatists. I would like to read the Republic Commando series, and I've had it recommended several times, but I haven't gotten to it yet...

    5. Yes--it's one of my favorite star wars series. Of course, it's one of the only star wars series I have, and I only have the first book. But it seems pretty good to me. It depends if you're interested in Post Galactic Civil War era books.

    6. Following my logic, Yoda was changed by the purge. In my opinion, he went a little crazy. When Luke meets him on dagobah, he seems a little...nutty. =P

    7. Orthodox Jedi don't cheat. Half-Corrupted/Crazy Jedi and Grey Jedi do.

    8. I haven't read the books either, but I've played the videogame and read a few wookieepedia articles.

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  18. 1. i know, right!

    2.k. in that case, i'd have to agree with your original statement. the sith got "Darth Bane aka the stupidest sith ever". hence the reason why my character , Darth Talon, is from the One Sith. it's a huge group of sith that together can do more than Darth Bane and his apprentice Darth Zannah could ever do without the help of fellow sith.

    3. sith still rule...

    4. well, before i continue that point,i would like for us to be on the same page. so basically, read Hard Contact, and then we'll talk. (Edessa has done a commentary on it that you could read, assuming you haven't already) and hey, weren't you the one who said "not a word about how the clones betrayed the jedi. NOT. A. WORD." :)

    5. i'll have to try that sometime.

    6. yeah. yoda scares me.

    7. so your saying that Qui Gon Jinn was half corrupted/crazy and/or a grey jedi?

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  19. 2. I think I've heard about that group. Wasn't its leader Darth Krayt or something? The guy with the spikey armor? I think I remember not liking him because he was originally A'sharad Hett...but my memory is a little fuzzy. I like A'sharad Hett because he's one of the few Jedi that consistently uses Jar'Kai (one of my favorite lightsaber forms)

    3. *cough* From a certain point of view

    4. Will do... I'm not sure what I said earlier =P

    7. Qui-Gon Jinn was always assumed to be a Grey Jedi. To paraphrase Obi-Wan, "He would have already been on the council if he had just followed the code." This comment and the one from the beginning of Episode I (where Jinn talks about the living force) identifies him as at least being part-grey.

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  20. 1. yeah. dunno if his armor is spikey but that's his name. i haven't read anything about darth krayt, so basically when it comes to him i know (next to ) nothing. but i could tell you quite a bit about Darth Talon :) *i <3 twi'leks!!!!!* (random fact: i like Vapaad and Ataru! they're some of the awesomest lightsaber forms out there!)

    2. well, the emperor was a sith and he ruled the galaxy ... for a while, anyway...

    3. :)

    4. part grey. not completely grey.

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  21. Vapaad and Ataru are pretty cool, but my favorites are Djem So and Jar Kai.

    I know next to nothing about Darth Talon =P Who was she?

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  22. Djem So? what's that? i think i know what Jar Kai is. that's what Darth Maul uses, right?

    is. Darth Talon is a member of the order of the One Sith. (this is after the original trilogy i think.) anywho, she is one of Darth Krayt's Hands, his personal assassins. she shares the role of hand first with Darth Nihl who was later replaced with Darth Stryfe who later died. Nihl took over the position once again. then Krayt died leaving the order in chaos. Darth Nihl then became the new Dark Lord. Talon is a lethan twi'lek whose red skin is literally coated in black sith tattoos. like all sith her eyes are yellow. she is 31. her original name was Talon'kai. she is adept at the use of various force maneuvers, including force lightning and rumor has it that she may have a rare ability for force concealment. like most sith in that order, her saber was crafted to resemble a particular type of coral, the saber's crystal is visible. Darth Talon was fiercely loyal to her master Darth Krayt. killing her previous master at his request and even going so far as to claim that she would "cut out her own heart" if he told her to. Talon also trained Cade Skywalker as a sith at Krayt's command despite what she was told by the force. he later turned to the jedi (don't use this to bring us back to that one point about sith loyalty. i don't know much about Cade. so don't ask me about him either) and Talon was tasked with the job of locating Cade and bringing him back alive to Krayt, who wanted him for his rare healing abilities. ok. i'm going off track. i'm gonna stop right here. Darth Talon uses Ataru. ok. now i'm done:) if ya wanna know more read the wookieepedia article!

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  23. Djem So is Form V, also known as The Way of the Krayt Dragon. It emphasizes power attacks, along with defense immediately followed by counter-attacks. It's seen as a very aggressive fighting style, most notably practiced by Anakin Skywalker, Aayla Secura, Galen Marek and more.

    Jar'Kai is the practice of using dual blades in battle. It actually has a specific history, but the Jedi and Sith use it as a blanket term for all dual lightsaber wielding.

    Talon sounds cool. I don't really know who Cade is either...my knowledge of the Skywalker family ends with Ben, whom I know only a little about...

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  24. Aaylaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! i LOVE twi'leks! i LOVE Aayla! i LOVE Darth Talon!

    ha! epicness! you know if that's what Satele Shan uses? i'm just assuming so but i dunno.

    very cool. extremely awesome. INCREDIBLY EPIC!

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  25. bwahahaaaa. Aayla rocks, especially on SWBII. By far the best Jedi ever...

    I looked up Satele Shan, but it doesn't say her fighting style. I would assume it's Makashi, since she does a lot of lightsaber to lightsaber combat.

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  26. i know right! k Satele Shan comes insanely close. can you believe it that Edessa doesn't like her? she says that she's a coward cause in ROTS you see a shot where she turns around, sees the guns aimed at her then turns around again. Eddy claims that she was going to run. i for one know that i would run...

    cool! me and my bro are trying to come up with our own saber form. not goin so well. yet.

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  27. Since you're the closest thing to a Twi'lek expert I know, maybe you could answer my question. At least in the videogame I play (Star Wars: The Old Republic), all of the female Twi'lek ears are these weird cone things. Male Twi'leks have human-like ears, so I was wondering if it's just the game graphics or if female Twi'leks actually have different ears. And I'm not talking about their lekku--I know what those are.

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  28. i'm not an expert but thanks! anydoodles, no that is not game graphics. female twi'leks really do have different ears! to tell you the truth, i don't know why but i know that they do. BTW i'm glad that you know what lekku are. if you didn't i would have to facepalm!:) do you know what tchun-tchin are?

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  29. *cough* I didn't know what tchun-tchin are, but I looked it up. I had never heard them referred to as that before. =P

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  30. did you know that at celebration 6 there will be a painting for sale of Darth Talon and Aayla Secura fighting! i sooooo wanna go!

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  31. have you finished Hard Contact yet? if not, what just happened?

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  32. wow i'm having a really nice conversation by myself! :) ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! hey i just met you and this is crazy...

    BUT I'M A SITH LORD AND I'M
    CONVERTING YOU,MAYBE!!!!!!!

    ha! couldn't help myself...

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  33. OOOOOOOOOOOKKKKKK!!! I will consider the debate over.

    Darth Talon, Signing out!

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